can you organize too much in ICA?

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/10/occupy_denver_anarchist_general_assembly.php

"'We are supposed to be inclusive, and I worry that a few of us appear to be making the decisions for all of us,' volunteer Rob Piper said in one of the meeting's earliest statements. 'We must decide whether we are a circle jerk or a social fucking movement.'"

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-kanalley/occupy-wall-street-zuccotti-park_b_1026400.html

"
There's no shortage of talking, and you never know who will take hold of the People's Mic. Persuasive speakers on all sides can give General Assembly meetings a roller-coaster feel. Someone always seems to oppose a budget proposal, or have a strong dissenting opinion on something that seems on its way to sure passage. Just one voice joining the debate at the last minute has the power to sway the entire discussion.
With every proposal, there are questions and there are concerns, and the process continues and continues. The facilitators say numerous times the group has strayed off process. Questions are sometimes ignored for being 'off-topic' even when they aren't, time constraints are cited and frustrations boil over. Occupiers curse, speak out of turn and sometimes they just keep on talking, despite 'Mic Check' calls over them. Those on all sides alienate each other."

* * * *


I don't know the solution to this. Handling finances and infiltrators are important issues. But really, a 3-hour meeting?  A 5-hour meeting?  I'm going to guess that both NY and Denver OWS is trying to organize a bit too much for an ICA.  The simplicity is getting lost.  But, if a group gets that big, and needs to consider how to help those who get arrested, etc., there does need to be organization.

So I'll go out on a limb and say once your group is so big you need to build a sort of bureaucracy, then abandon the idea that you are working under ICA. Those methods will no longer work.  And I think they're too worried about a "leader" since such a position can be seen as just another position, not one that controls the whole system. 

This is the sort of stuff that needs to be thought through more; when does ICA work, and when should it be abandoned for more organized methods?